EXCERPTS OF IMAM AL-RIDHA’S DEBATE WITH THEOLOGIANS AND CHRISTIANS (1)

مقتطفات من مَجْلِسَ الإمام الرِّضا ‏مَعَ أَهْل الأَديان (1)‏

… Introducing Imam Al-Ridha, Al-Ma’mun, the Abbasid ruler, turned to the Catholic Archbishop and said, “O Catholic Archbishop! This is my cousin Ali ibn Musa ibn Ja’far. He is one of the descendants of Lady Fatima the daughter of our Prophet, and the descendant of Ali ibn Abi Talib. I would like you to have a debate with him and be fair with him.”

… ثُمَّ الْتَفَتَ (المأمونُ) إِلَى الْجَاثَلِيقِ فَقَالَ: يَا جَاثَلِيقُ هَذَا ابْنُ عَمِّي عَلِيُّ بْنُ مُوسَى بْنِ جَعْفَرٍ وَهُوَ مِنْ ولدِ فَاطِمَةَ بِنْتِ نَبِيِّنَا، وَابْنُ عَلِيِّ بْنِ أَبِي طَالِبٍ‏ عَلَيْهِ السَّلامُ فَأُحِبُّ أَنْ تُكَلِّمَهُ وَتُحَاجَّهُ وَتُنْصِفَهُ

The Catholic Archbishop said, “How can I debate with a man who argues with me using a book that we have denied and a prophet whom we do not believe in?”

فَقَالَ الْجَاثَلِيقُ: يَا أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ كَيْفَ أُحَاجُّ رَجُلاً يَحْتَجُّ عَلَيَّ بِكِتَابٍ أَنَا مُنْكِرُهُ وَنَبِيٍّ لا أُومِنُ بِهِ؟

Imam Al-Ridha spoke: “O Christian! Will you accept it if I present proofs from your own Book?”

فَقَالَ الرِّضَا عَلَيْهِ السَّلامُ: يَا نَصْرَانِيُّ، فَإِنِ احْتَجَجْتُ عَلَيْكَ بِإِنْجِيلِكَ أَتُقِرُّ بِهِ؟

The Catholic Archbishop said, “How could I deny what the Bible speaks of? I swear to God that I will accept it even if I dislike it.”

قَالَ الْجَاثَلِيقُ: وَهَلْ أَقْدِرُ عَلَى دَفْعِ مَا نَطَقَ بِهِ الإِنْجِيلُ؟ نَعَمْ وَاللَّهِ أُقِرُّ بِهِ عَلَى رَغْمِ أَنْفِي

Imam Al-Ridha said: “Ask whatever you wish to ask and you will receive answers.”

فَقَالَ لَهُ الرِّضَا عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ: سَلْ عَمَّا بَدَا لَكَ، وَاسْمَعِ الجَوَابَ

The Catholic Archbishop said: “What is your opinion about the Prophethood of Jesus and his Book? Do you deny any of them?”

فَقَالَ الجَاثْلِيقُ: مَا تَقُولُ فِي نُبُوَّةِ عِيسَى وَكِتَابِهِ؟ هَلْ تُنْكِرُ مِنْهُمَا شَيْئاً؟

Imam Al-Ridha answered: “I do admit to the prophethood of Jesus, his Book, and all the glad tidings he conveyed to his nation and his Disciples approved of. And I deny the prophethood of any other (false) ‘Jesus’ who has not professed the Prophethood of Muhammad, his Book and what he conveyed to his nation.”

قَالَ الرِّضَا: اَنَا مُقِرٌّ بِنُبُوَّةِ عِيسَى وَكِتَابِهِ وَمَا بَشَّرَ بِهِ أُمَّتَهُ وَأَقَرَّتْ بِهِ الْحَوارِيُّونَ، وَكَافِرٌ بِنُبُوَّةِ كُلِّ عِيسَى لَمْ يُقِرَّ بِنُبُوَّةِ مُحَمَّدٍ  صَلّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِهِ  وَبِكِتَابِهِ وَلَمْ يُبَشِّرْ بِهِ أُمَّتَهُ

The Catholic Archbishop said, “Is it not true that issues are proven decisively true when they are testified by two just witnesses?”

قَالَ الجَاثْلِيقُ: أَلَيْسَ إِنَّمَا نَقْطَعُ الأَحْكَامَ بِشَاهِدَيْ عَدْلٍ؟

The Imam answered affirmatively.

قَالَ عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ : بَلَى

So, the Catholic Archbishop said, “So, bring us two witnesses from other faiths than yours—faiths that are approved of by Christianity—to testify to the prophethood of Muhammad. You may demand us with the same.”

قَالَ: فَأَقِمْ شَاهِدَيْنِ مِنْ غَيْرِ أَهْلِ مِلَّتِكَ عَلَى نُبُوَّةِ مُحَمَّدٍ (صَلّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِهِ) مِمَّنْ لاَ تُنْكِرُهُ النَّصْرَانِيَّةُ، وَسَلْنَا مِثْلَ ذَلِكَ مِنْ غَيْرِ أَهْلِ مِلَّتِنَا

Imam Al-Ridha said, “O Christian! Now you are speaking fairly. Do you accept the testimony of the just person whom was favored (over others) by Jesus Christ, son of Mary?”

قَالَ الرِّضَا عَلَيْهِ السَّلامُ: اَلآنَ جِئْتَ بِالنَّصَفَةِ يَا نَصْرَانِيُّ. اَلاَ تَقْبَلُ مِنِّي العَدْلَ المُقَدَّمَ عِنْدَ المَسِيحِ عِيسَى بْنِ مَرْيَمَ عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ؟

The Catholic Archbishop said, “Who is that just person? Name him to me.”

قَالَ الجَاثْلِيقُ: وَمَنْ هَذا العَدْلُ؟ سَمِّهِ لِي

The Imam said, “What do you think of John of Dailam?”

قَالَ: مَا تَقُولُ بِيُوحَنّا الدَّيْلَمِيِّ؟

The Catholic Archbishop welcomed and said, “Bravo! You have mentioned the person loved the most by Jesus Christ.”

قَالَ: بَخٍ بَخٍ، ذَكَرْتَ أَحَبَّ النّاسِ إلى المَسِيحِ

The Imam said, “Now, I adjure you to say the truth about this: Has or hasn’t the Bible read: John says: Jesus Christ has foretold me of the religion of Muhammad the Arab, and has given me the glad tidings about him who will be the next prophet after him? So, I conveyed this to the Disciples and they therefore believed in him?”

قَالَ: فَأَقْسَمْتُ عَلَيْكَ هَلْ نَطَقَ الإنْجِيلُ أَنَّ يُوحَنّا قَالَ: إنمَّا المَسِيحُ أخْبَرَنِي بِدِينِ مُحَمَّدٍ العَرَبِيِّ وَبَشَّرَنِي بِهِ أَنَّهُ يَكُونُ مِنْ بَعْدِهِ فَبَشَّرْتُ بِهِ الحَوَارِيِّينَ فَآمَنُوا بِهِ؟

The Catholic Archbishop said, “Yes, it did. John did quote this from Jesus Christ. He did give the glad tidings of the coming of a man who will be a prophet, and of his family members and successor. He has not clarified when this would take place, nor has he named them so that we may know who they are.”

قَالَ الجَاثْلِيقُ: قَدْ ذَكَرَ ذَلِكَ يُوحَنّا عَنِ المَسِيحِ وَبَشَّرَ بِنُبُوَّةِ رَجُلٍ وَبِأَهْلِ بَيْتِهِ وَوَصِيِّهِ وَلَمْ يُلَخِّصْ مَتى يَكُونُ ذَلِكَ، وَلَمْ تُسَمَّ لَنَا القَوْمُ فَنَعْرِفَهُمْ

Imam Al-Ridha said, “If we bring someone here who can recite the Bible and he will recite to you Muhammad’s name, his family members, and his nation, will you believe in him?”

قَالَ الرِّضَا عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ: فَإنْ جِئْنَاكَ بِمَنْ يَقْرَأُ الإنْجِيلَ فَتَلا عَلَيْكَ ذِكْرَ مُحَمَّدٍ وَأَهْلِ بَيْتِهِ وَأُمَّتِهِ، أَتُؤْمِنُ بِهِ؟

The Catholic Archbishop said, “Yes, certainly!”

قَالَ: سَديداً

Imam Al-Ridha turned to Nestus of Rome and asked him, “Have you memorized the third book of the Bible?”

قَالَ الرِّضَا عَلَيْهِ السَّلامُ لِنَسْطاسَ الرُّومِيِّ: كَيْفَ حِفْظُكَ لِلسِّفْرِ الثّالِثِ مِنَ الإنْجِيلِ؟

He answered, “I have thoroughly memorized it.”

قَالَ: مَا أحْفَظَنِي لَهُ

The Imam addressed the High Rabbi, “Can you recite the Bible?”

ثُمَّ الْتَفَتَ إلى رَأسِ الجَالُوتِ فَقَالَ: أَلَسْتَ تَقْرَأُ الإنْجِيلَ؟

He confirmed, “Yes, of course.”

قَالَ: بَلَى لَعَمْرِي

The Imam said, “Then I will recite to you (some verses from) the third book. If Muhammad, his family and his nation were mentioned in it, then bear witness! And if they have not been mentioned therein, then do not bear witness.”

قَالَ: فَخُذْ عَلَى السِّفْرِ، فَإنْ كَانَ فِيهِ ذِكْرُ مُحَمَّدٍ وَأَهْلِ بَيْتِهِ وَأُمَّتِهِ فَاشْهَدوا لِي، وَإنْ لَمْ يَكُنْ فِيهِ ذِكْرُهُ فَلا تَشْهَدُوا لِي

Then the Imam recited some verses of the third book.When he reached the reference to Prophet Muhammad. he stopped reading and said, “O Christian! I adjure you in the name of Jesus Christ and his mother: Have you realized that I have full knowledge of the Bible?”

ثُمَّ قَرَأَ عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ السِّفْرَ الثَّالِثَ، حَتّى إذَا بَلَغَ ذِكْرَ النَّبِيِّ صَلّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِهِ وَقَفَ ثُمَّ قَالَ: يَا نَصْرَانِيُّ إنّي أسْأَلُكَ بِحَقِّ المَسِيحِ وَأُمِّهِ، أَتَعْلَمُ أنّي عَالِمٌ بِالإنْجِيلِ؟

He replied, “Yes, I have.”

قَالَ: نَعَمْ

The Imam recited to him some verses from the third book concerning the Holy Prophet, his family and his community. Then he asked, “O Christian! What do you think now? These are the words of Jesus, son of Mary. If you deny what the Bible says, then you will deny Moses and Jesus. If you deny them, then it is incumbent upon people to kill you since you have blasphemed against your Lord, your Prophet and your Book.”

ثُمَّ تَلاَ عَلَيْنَا ذِكْرَ مُحَمَّدٍ وَأَهْلِ بَيْتِهِ وَأُمَّتِهِ ثُمَّ قَالَ: مَا تَقُولُ يَا نَصْرَانِيُّ؟ هَذَا قَوْلُ عِيسَى بْنِ مَرْيَمَ عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ فَإنْ كَذَّبْتَ بِمَا يَنْطِقُ بِهِ الإنْجِيلُ فَقَدْ كَذَّبْتَ مُوسَى وَعِيسَى عَلَيْهِمَا السَّلامُ، وَمَتى أَنْكَرْتَ هَذَا الذِّكْرَ وَجَبَ عَلَيْكَ القَتْلُ لأَنَّكَ تَكُونُ قَدْ كَفَرْتَ بِرَبِّكَ وَنَبِيِّكَ وَبِكِتَابِكَ

The Catholic Archbishop said, “I do not deny what has been made clear to me in Bible. I do profess.”

قَالَ الجَاثْلِيقُ: لا أُنْكِرُ مَا قَدْ بَانَ لِي فِي الإنْجِيلِ، وَإنّي لَمُقِرٌّ بِهِ

The Imam asked others who were present, “Bear witness that he professed.”

قَالَ الرِّضَا عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ: إشْهَدُوا عَلَى إقْرَارِهِ.

Then the Imam told the Catholic Archbishop, “Ask me any other questions that you wish to ask.”

ثُمَّ قَالَ: يَا جَاثْلِيقُ، سَلْ عَمّا بَدا لَكَ

The Catholic Archbishop asked, “What about the Disciples of Jesus, son of Mary? How many were they? And tell me about the scholars of the Bible. How many were they?”

قَالَ الجَاثْلِيقُ: أخْبِرْنِي عَنْ حَوَارِيِّي عِيسَى بْنِ مَرَيْمَ عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ؛ كَمْ كَانَ عِدَّتَهُمْ؟ وَعَنْ عُلَمَاءِ الإنْجِيلِ؛ كَمْ كَانوا؟

Imam Al-Ridha said, “You cannot find a better answer than mine. I am the most experienced! As for the number of the Disciples, they were twelve men. The best and most learned of them was Luke. As for the number of Christian scholars, there were three men: John the Greatest of Ajj, John of Circesium, and John of Dailam who kept the gospel about Prophet Muhammad, his family and his community. It is he who gave the glad tidings of the advent of the Holy Prophet to the community of Jesus and to the children of Israel.”

قَالَ الرِّضَا عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ: عَلَى الْخَبِيرِ سَقَطْتَ! أمّا الحَوَارِيُّونَ فَكَانُوا اثْنَيْ عَشَرَ رَجُلاً، وَكَانَ أَعْلَمَهُمْ وَأَفْضَلَهُمْ ألُوقَا. وَأمّا عُلَمَاءُ النَّصَارَى فَكَانوا ثَلاثَةَ رِجَالٍ: يُوحَنّا الأَكْبَرُ بِأَجّ، وَيُوحَنّا بِقِرْقِيسِيا، وَيُوحَنّا الدَّيْلَمِيَّ بِرَجَازَ. وَعِنْدَهُ كَانَ ذِكْرُ النَّبِيِّ صَلّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِهِ وَذِكْرُ أهْلِ بَيْتِهِ وَأُمَّتِهِ، وَهُوَ الَّذِي بَشَّرَ أُمَّةَ عِيسَى وَبَنِي إسْرَائِيلَ بِهِ

The Imam added, “O Christian! By God I swear this: We do believe in Jesus who believed in Muhammad. We have nothing against your “Jesus” except that he was too weak to worship God and he used to pray and fast so rarely!”

ثُمَّ قَالَ لَهُ: يَا نَصْرَانِيُّ، وَاللهِ إنّا لَنُؤْمِنُ بِعِيسَى الَّذِي آمَنَ بِمُحَمَّدٍ صَلّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِهِ وَمَا نَنْقِمُ عَلَى عِيساكُمْ شَيْئاً إلاّ ضَعْفَهُ وَقِلَةَ صِيامِهِ وَصَلاتِهِ

Astounded, the Catholic Archbishop said, “By God, you have corrupted your knowledge! Your situation has become weak! I thought that you were the most learned of all Muslims!”

قَالَ الجَاثْلِيقُ: أفْسَدْتَ وَاللهِ عِلْمَكَ وَضَعَّفْتَ أمْرَكَ وَمَا كُنْتُ ظَنَنْتُ إلاّ أنَّكَ أعْلَمُ أهْلِ الإسْلاَمِ

“Why is that?” asked Imam Al-Ridha.

قَالَ الرِّضَا عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ: وَكَيْفَ ذَاكَ؟

The Catholic Archbishop answered, “This is clear from your saying that Jesus was weak and he seldom offered prayers and observed fasting. In fact, Jesus Christ spent all days of his life fasting, and spent all nights of his lifetime praying. He never spent a single day not fasting, and never slept for a whole night.”

قَالَ الجَاثْلِيقُ: مِنْ قَوْلِكَ أنَّ عِيسَى كَانَ ضَعِيفاً قَلِيلَ الصِّيَامِ قَلِيلَ الصَّلاَةِ؛ وَمَا أفْطَرَ عِيسَى يَوماً قَطُّ وَلاَ نَامَ بِلَيْلٍ قَطُّ وَمَا زَالَ صَائِمَ الدَّهْرِ وَقَائِمَ اللَّيْلِ

Imam Al-Ridha asked, “For whom did he fast and pray?”

قَالَ الرِّضَا عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ: فَلِمَنْ كَانَ يَصُومُ وَيُصَلِّي؟!

The Catholic Archbishop was muted, not knowing what to say.

قَالَ: فَخَرِسَ الجَاثْلِيقُ وَانْقَطَعَ

Imam Al-Ridha then said, “May I ask you a question?”

قَالَ الرِّضَا عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ: يَا نَصْرَانِيُّ، أَسْأَلُكَ عَنْ مَسْأَلَةٍ.

The Catholic Archbishop said, “Yes, you may. I will reply if I know the answer.”

قَالَ: سَلْ؛ فَإنْ كَانَ عِنْدِي عِلْمُهَا أَجَبْتُكَ

Imam Al-Ridha said, “Why do you deny that Jesus Christ breathed life into the dead by God’s permission?”

قَالَ الرِّضَا عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ: مَا أَنْكَرْتَ أنَّ عِيسَى عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ كَانَ يُحْيِي المَوْتَى بِإذْنِ اللهِ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ؟

The Catholic Archbishop said, “I did deny that, because one who breathes life into the dead and heals the blind and the leprous must be a god that deserves to be worshipped.”

قَالَ الجَاثْلِيقُ: أنْكَرْتُ ذَلِكَ مِنْ أَجْلِ أنَّ مَنْ أحْيَى المَوْتَى وَأبْرَأَ الأَكْمَهَ وَالأَبْرَصَ فَهُوَ رَبٌّ مُسْتَحِقٌّ لأَنْ يُعْبَدَ

Imam Al-Ridha said, “But Elija did just as Jesus Christ did. He walked on water, breathed life in the dead and healed the blind and the leprous. Why did his followers not take him for a god? Why was he not worshipped by anyone, while everybody worshipped God? Ezekiel, too, did just what Jesus Christ did. He breathed life in thirty-five dead people, sixty years after their death…

قَالَ الرِّضَا عَلَيْهِ السَّلامُ: فَإنَّ الْيَسَعَ قَدْ صَنَعَ مِثْلَ صُنْعِ عِيسَى عَلَيْهِ السَّلامُ: مَشَى عَلَى المَاءِ وَأَحْيَى المَوْتَى وَأبْرَأَ الأَكْمَهَ وَالأَبْرَصَ، فَلَمْ تَتَّخِذْهُ أُمَّتُهُ رَبّاً، وَلَمْ يَعْبُدْهُ أَحَدٌ مِنْ دُونِ اللهِ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ. وَلَقَدْ صَنَعَ حِزْقِيلُ النَّبِيُّ عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ مِثْلَ مَا صَنَعَ عِيسَى بْنِ مَرْيَمَ فَأَحْيَا خَمْسَةً وَثَلاثِينَ ألْفِ رَجُلٍ مِنْ بَعْدِ مَوْتِهِمْ بِسِتِّينَ سَنَةً